SENATOR RUSS FEINGOLD (D-WI): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for holding the hearing. It provides a nice counterpoint to last week's hearing with Ambassador Holbrooke and given the critical national security issues we're discussing today, having the Defense Department testify before our committee, helps to provide a full and comprehensive framework. And Admiral Mullen, thank you for coming before the committee today. It is good to see you again.

 

ADM. MULLEN: Sure.

 

SEN. FEINGOLD: As the president and the Secretary of State have made clear, security in Afghanistan and Pakistan, as well as for us here at home are inextricably linked. I appreciate your commitment to ensuring U.S. military activity support rather than lead our nation's foreign policies and you have so candidly reminded us of how important it is for our military to be part of as you put it, quote, "A comprehensive, integrated approach that employs all elements of power to achieve the policy goals set by our civilian leaders." However, as you know, I am concerned that by sending 21,000 new U.S. troops to Afghanistan, we may end up further destabilizing Pakistan without providing substantial lasting improvements in Afghanistan.

 

Weak civilian governments and increased number of militants and an expanded U.S. troop presence could be a recipe for disaster for those nations in the region, as well as our own nation's security. So I look forward to discussing some of this with you.

 

Admiral, at the hearing last week, I asked Ambassador Holbrooke whether he was confident that an increase in U.S. troops in Afghanistan would not somehow counterproductively drive militants into Pakistan and contribute to greater instability. I think you can certainly argue that that's what happened after 9/11 and what Ambassador Holbrooke said was and I'm quoting here, quote, "No, I am only sure that we are aware of the problem, that we are working intensely with the Pakistani army, that they are aware of it, that the lesson of 2001 and 2002 has been absorbed," unquote.

 

Do you share the ambassador's concern?

 

ADM. MULLEN: I share your concern with respect to that. Clearly, first of all, I think the troop level is about right. I was just in RC East. We've added recently a brigade there in January and General McKiernan, General Schlosser, who is the two star that is in the eastern part of Afghanistan. From a force perspective, force lay down perspective thinks that's about right.

 

The 10,000 Marines that go into southern Afghanistan here starting now and throughout the summer, we think that is about right and I don't know of any other way to provide for the security and what's also -- the 17,700 is one, the other 4,000 who are going in to get the 21 (thousand) are really trainers and it is in the training capacity building for both the police and the military that as take over their own security, that's absolutely key.

 

But your point and I've discussed this with General Kiyani very specifically, your point about insurgents going, particularly into Baluchistan, but particularly across that border is one we all share the concern for that. He shares the concern for that. Where I'm comfortable is at least planning for it and having some expectation will allow us to address that and that is going on, not just where I live, but certainly where General Kiyani is as well.

 

Can I -- 100 percent certain that won't destabilize Pakistan? I don't know the answer to that. I don't think it will because we're aware of it and I think Pakistan is further away from being totally destabilized than a lot of people realize. The military and civilian leadership recognizes this potential and so we're addressing it ahead of time.

 

SEN. FEINGOLD: Thank you. That's a candid answer and I'm also concerned that while the Pakistani military is undertaking operations in Swat, they may be moving selectively against certain militants and not necessarily going after key Taliban leadership and other critical regions. You just mentioned this.

Have you seen a change in Pakistani behavior in Baluchistan?

 

ADM. MULLEN: Not significant at this point, and where I find General Kiyani in distributing his and apportioning his capability and shifting his weight to the west, he does it in a measured way and he does it within the capacity that he can in terms of rotations and being someone who is also fighting two wars, I have sympathy with the need to provide forces in two different places and, in fact, one being a conventional fight, basically, and the other one being a counterinsurgency fight. So he's changing on the run and he's worked his way through Mohmand and Buner and Dir and he's now back in Swat. The key for Swat is to follow the military capability -- the security with some hold capability, which gets to the importance of this bill and to hold and build and that's -- he's moving, starting to move into that phase in parts of Swat right now, but there's North Waziristan, South Waziristan, Baluchistan, which he also knows is a problem. It's a question of how do you execute a campaign plan and you can't do it all at once.

 

SEN. FEINGOLD: In testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee last week, you expressed continued concern about cooperation between the ISI and the Taliban and Secretary Clinton testified yesterday that the State Department is preparing contingency plans in the event that six months from now we continue to see members of the ISI supporting the Taliban.

 

How would you recommend that we alter our military-to-military relations in the event that such support continues in six months' time?

 

ADM. MULLEN: I haven't taken myself out to a specific target date with respect to that, Senator Feingold. I have had lengthy discussions, actually, with Pak civilian and military leadership, the military leadership is critical here and what I've watched and certainly expressed this concern and my belief has been for some time that I believe the ISI has to change its strategic approach in order for progress to be made over the long term.

 

What General Kiyani has done and the civilian leadership has done has changed out the leadership of that organization, almost the entire leadership, not just Pasha, but the principle directorates are all people that General Kiyani trusts. We've had this discussion. This has happened over the last six months.

 

So I think this is going to take some time. The ISI is very supportive in ways and constructive in ways that we concur in. There are still challenges about connections with militants and their support of those militants as well, and I've constantly address those concerns, will continue to do that. I think part of that answer is answering the question about how Pakistan sees it future. Pakistan, as you know, created the ISI and its strategic approach has been to foment towards India, foment towards Afghanistan and in their insecurity in that regard, the ISI has a mission.

 

I think that that has to change. A lot of that will change, I believe, long-term if they have more confidence in their own security.

 

SEN. FEINGOLD: Thank you very much, admiral.

 

SEN. KERRY: Thank you very much, Senator Feingold.